Mary Water is a twenty-two year old mother with a three year old son named Random. She grew up working class in Rutherford, New Jersey and left home at seventeen to go to The Evergreen State College in Olympia, Washington. Mary got pregnant right after her first year at school and had Random at nineteen. She made her first tape, a musical story called "Happy Halloween," when Random was 8 months old. Earlier this year Mary's band "Little Red Car Wreck" released an LP dubbed Motor Like a Mother.
My friend Sarah told me about Mary and "Little Red Car Wreck." So one morning after dropping my three year old daughter Hugo off at preschool I rode my bike down to the record shop and sat in a sound booth listening to the CD from start to finish. If anyone had peeked in the window they would have seen me alternately crying, laughing, covered in chill bumps, and mostly smiling big time. So I plopped down $13.99 of the grocery money and took the CD home. The songs are steeped in the imagery and themes of motherhood: dishes, laundry, welfare, car seats, and a force of will as strong as a motor.
I wanted to hang out with Mary and do this interview while our kids played (or beat each other up as the case may have been) but we had to do it over the phone as Mary is in Olympia and I'm sweating it out down here in Texas.
molly...How did your folks react to your pregnancy?
mary...It wasn't like a great thing. I think my mom introduced it to my dad by saying, "What's the worst thing you can possibly imagine happening?" And the worst was me being addicted to heroin and next was me being pregnant.
molly...I think my parents thought I was going to tell them I had AIDS, so they were happy, comparatively anyway.
mary...Fortunately I told them by letter, my mom had 24 hours to freak out all by herself and not on me. Then she called so she was a little bit more composed.
molly...Was there ever a feeling that you wouldn't be able to do music with a kid; what's been hard?
mary...I wasn't really playing shows before Random was born, so it was really hard to get started, but that's the thing I find about kids, they give you this direction that is so clear, they show you where your direction is going to be. Even though things get really hard it's like when I used to run cross-country in high school I was able to run much better when I was going uphill. When things are really hard I just am able to do it better. I usually get really depressed in the summer here, but not in the winter because there is something to struggle against. I remember all of these times practicing and Random screaming at my leg, totally hysterical, and me saying, "Five more minutes." Sometimes a roommate of ours would play with him. All of my beginning tapes have him screaming in the background. I have never been that up on the music scene in Olympia because I don't go to many shows and it's hard to jump in on that.
molly...How did your friends react to you having a baby?
mary...My friends in New Jersey were pretty good about it, here they were freaked out. I didn't have that many friends here anyway and one of the hardest things is making friends.
molly...I don't have the luxury of staying up until 4:00 a.m. talking and making friends like I used to.
mary...Also, I've been learning about different class things, for instance, I grew up working class and the town I lived in was pretty much middle class. Most of my friends were working class or not white, people of color. When I moved here all of my friends were suddenly pretty much raised middle class and all alternativy. I thought, "Holy shit, all of my friends in New Jersey are so stupid, everyone here is really positive and amazing." I felt really stupid and lame; I mean they all had their own businesses. Eventually I realized that is because they were raised middle class and in a certain different way than how I was raised. There are areas where they don't have that much attention for my kid. I always have these emotional breakdowns or feel really negative and they can't take it, whereas my friends back home can take it.
molly...Yeah, that's been true for me too. One of the big arguments that people threw at me to convince me to have an abortion was, "You don't have health insurance." It was just this strange and desperate argument because so many people don't have health insurance. Definitely middle class people get more freaked out about babies and not having money...As a mom how was touring?
mary...We went on a ten day tour last January. It was harder than I thought it would be. Leaving Random was hard, that was the longest I ever left him. Also it's really hard to be a band and be your first time on tour. We played this place in LA called "Club Sucker" and this nine foot tall, black drag queen, Miss Vaginal Cream Davis was the host. She's really funny, but she makes fun of everybody so bad. She was saying, "These bands are very white and very rich all related to Mr. Bill Gates." It was funny but horrible and there was this huge crowd of crazy drunk people. I actually had the best time there because, again, when things are harder I usually feel like, "Fuck this, I'll teach these people a lesson." I get really fiery, so I had one of my best shows there.
molly...What music are you listening to these days?
mary...I listen to the weirdest stuff, I mean it doesn't make any sense. Usually I listen to my friends' bands or tapes that people give me. I do like The Cube, I guess you call it hip hop or R&B, the mainstream of that genre. I love it because they do all of this cool sampling of like Nightrider and Cyndi Lauper, all of my favorite eighties music with a new twist.
molly...How has it been logistically having band practice and recording?
mary...With my most recent band Circles and Squares we didn't have a place to practice since I was living in the school bus and she has a tiny apartment. So we played in the laundry room of her apartment building which was really embarrassing because people would come in and be trying to do their laundry. A friend let us practice in his basement for a while which was really nice. If I could have practiced at my house it would have been better because we could have done it while Random was sleeping. It was always a huge episode to get to where we were going to practice. When I was living in the school bus it was easier time wise because I'd have Random three and a half days a week and then I worked at a daycare for two days and the other day I would spend on music. Now I live in a more expensive place and I have to work more, it's harder to find time. I've been swearing I'm going to start recording on my four-track, but I just keep looking at it.
molly...I borrowed a 4-track for a while and when Green took Hugo on a trip I got so much done, but I haven't touched it since.
mary...It's really hard to get focused on recording. I sit down and play little songs and I find that I always have to have a tape recorder ready, otherwise I just forget them. I can sit down and play a little song for a while, but I can't sit down and deal with the 4-track. So I just keep my little tape recorder by me. I put out a tape about a month or two ago called "School bus" of all songs I had recorded in the school bus where I was living on Random's little Fisher Price tape recorder. That was cool because it made me feel like I could still do it. Maybe they'll just have to turn their stereos up really loud...
The thing that seems so hopeless to me in terms of playing music and doing it independently, is that you hear about all of these people like Ani Difranco who did it all on their own, but they didn't have kids. To do that I think you have to be out there playing out in all different places; I just can't do that. It's frustrating because unless you're on a major label it would be hard to make it and make any money doing music.
molly...Before I had Hugo I didn't care about making money, but now if I am spending a lot of time and energy on something it needs to generate some income.
mary...Also you have to make the money to get by. So the more time you spend making money the less time you have for making music.
molly...Exactly. Change of subject: what music does Random like to listen to?
mary...He really likes a lot of my songs, "Crashing Cars" is his favorite. He actually plays drums with me sometimes when I play it, it's funny. He likes the tape "One with Johnny" and he really likes Beck. He always wanted to listen to "One Foot in the Grave" at bedtime. He likes some kid stuff too.
molly...Yeah, Hugo likes this tape of nursery rhymes sung by kids, but they bug me, they're kind of demented.
mary...I've been noticing that with Disney movies too. (I just went back to New York and New Jersey to visit my family. And everybody was like, "I've got this video for you to watch." I mean we come 3000 miles and you don't even interact with him.) I realized that is why all little girls have this victim complex. I notice Random interacting with the little girls we know and they take on this victim role from the movies and they play that out and Random plays out the opposite thing. It's like, "Oh god, you get another time out now."
molly...Do you think about how to socialize Random in a different way?
mary...There are certain things, we put on lipstick together and do our hair, that just come naturally. I don't really have a plan, but do what comes naturally. I'm not trying to make him some different kind of man. It would be contrived for me to say, "Don't play with guns. Don't pretend like you are going to kill people." I generally think that he has all of this energy and he needs an outlet for it. Sometimes the energy looks really violent and that is hard to deal with, but I just try to do the best that I can and react differently than my parents reacted to my violence as a kid. They responded to my violence with violence. So I just try not to do that.
molly...Hugo is a girl and she has a lot of aggression, I was really surprised. I had the idea that she would not have that violence as a girl with peaceful loving parents, but she does and I have a hard time dealing with it. I don't have any good role models for that.
mary...Even the other parents I know don't let their kids go off the way I let Random, maybe it's because he's a boy, I don't know. I encourage him to get it out, to beat on something, even me as long as it doesn't hurt too much. I think it's great that your daughter still has that energy even alternativy people don't seem to realize how great it is for girls to have that.
molly...I go back and forth. I want her to be really fierce and powerful, but her little friend does not deserve that. I'm trying to figure out how to teach her to reserve it for when she needs it. Her world is pretty safe right now, so it's like, "Can you hang on to that?"... Do you hang out with other moms?
mary...One of the hardest things as a mom is feeling isolated from other moms. For years all of my friends were from my first year in college and they didn't ever have any kids and it is really hard to have close relationships with them. Yet I wasn't able to connect with other moms. Now it's shifting. I'm noticing who I want to be friends with, who I want to build close relationships with. There are two moms now that I am totally going after. One of them is a musician too and her daughter is eight. I was homeless for a while and moving from place to place and she said, "I have this school bus, if you fix it up you can take it somewhere." She was the first person that helped me in a practical way, not just, "You don't have a place to live, how sad." I secretly think it's because she's from the Northeast like me and that's how people are out there. We just take responsibility for each other more than people out here with their pioneer independence.
molly...Exactly, I've been thinking about that a lot lately. I have some friends from the Northeast that I met when I lived in San Francisco. Those women are so close and they really throw down for each other. Here in Texas it feels really different like we're all on our own. I've figured out that it is about being the frontier where rugged individualism was really valued, plus all the internalized sexism.
mary...My other friend that's a mom was raised working class. One of the hardest things is making friends with a mom of the same class background. She reminds me so much of myself and my mom most of the time that I just can't take it. If we can hang out without the kids it's really good so we try to do that. I want to make friends with all kinds of moms, especially moms that seem more mainstream. I think when Random starts school that will be easier because right now I just feel like a freak.
molly...But then you'll be in the P.T.A... Hey, have your parent's heard the CD?
mary...Oh yeah! Actually I think my mom hasn't listened to it, she's scared, she thinks it's all about her and who knows? Maybe she's right.
molly...I thought it was about me!
mary...My dad, my brother, even my grandparents listened to it. They asked my dad, "Why does she have to yelling around about that teenage welfare mother stuff?" My dad enjoyed it. I made him give me a review, for one song he said, "I don't know, this song sounds like a person who is at the end of their wits. They're not going anywhere, they're just about to fry up." Well, that probably makes sense, but for him it seems really hopeless.
molly...It's seems like more of a way of not being hopeless, like a purging thing.
mary...Exactly.
molly...What kind of thing will you be doing next?
mary...I've gotten really depressed about playing shows. I'm frustrated with the music scene here. I want to focus on recording for now. I have the dream of organizing shows and having more diverse bands. I would want the show to be more of a planned event. Everyone would contribute ideas and make stuff for it. And everyone would make money based on the fact that they put this energy into creating a show. It would be about putting something forth for the audience and supporting each other in what we wanted to do and express. In my ideal world the money would be about what makes sense rather than who is popular...
We played Yo Yo a Go Go [a music festival] last summer and our little piece of the review said, "Maybe if I were a mother I would care about the things she was singing about." I was so mad. That is just "it," that is exactly the epitome of the evil. People mostly sing about the same shit, relationships or love, and you don't say, "Maybe if I were in love I would care about that."
molly...That reminds me of the kind of rhetoric you sing about in "Teenage Welfare Mother."
mary...I can't even go into the co-op here anymore. Last time I went in the kids were running around screaming and the guy behind the counter says, "Yeah, I'm so glad I'm never going to have kids." I was like, "Oh that's great." I'm just buying my food, and then he says, "I say seventeen is a good time to buy a shotgun or get a hysterectomy." And I say, "Oh you mean a vasectomy?" And he says, "No, a hysterectomy." I was livid, my eyes were rolling back in my head and I was imagining myself strangling him. So now I just feel like, no thank you, I'll buy my food at Safeway.
molly...What were your expectations of having a kid and how were they different from the reality?
mary...I don't think I had any expectations. I was nineteen, I was terrified, but I couldn't get an abortion. I was raised in the Southern Baptist Church and there was all of this abortion propaganda in my face all the time, dead fetuses torn apart. If I hadn't had all of that shit I probably would have had an abortion, but it was too much baggage.
One thing I thought was if you just raise your kid nicely and then they'll just be nice. I thought if I did things that make sense Random would just be good. That is definitely not the case. I didn't realize how hard it would be to have friends that aren't parents. I had no idea how hard things would be in my relationship with Random's dad. Those three things were real shockers.
molly...The song "Heartbreak" really gets me. I had this idea that my friends and community, not to mention Hugo's dad, would want to help out and be part of raising this kid, the reality was a huge heartbreak.
mary...When David and I were breaking up and moving apart all of these friends said, "We want to support you." And, "I'll move in with you." When it came down to it no one was going to do it. When I moved back in with David people thought that I was being stupid, but I'm just like, "You can go live out in the desert and eat your locusts, because I've done it long enough. If I'm going to find someone who will live with me and really do it then I'm going to do it.
molly...I continually have this resentment or disappointment with everyone whether they told outright they were going to support me or not because I think that it is just not human. It is not human to ignore your friends because they have a baby. It's definitely not adaptive. I actually got kicked out of my house for being pregnant.
mary...When I was looking for a place when Random was two no one would live with us. People aren't hateful, they are just dumb. People don't realize that children are just another aspect of diversity. I wrote this article that starts out, "The next person I see with a 'Dedicated to Diversity' bumper sticker I am shooting in the head."
molly...That reminds me of the song "Crashing Cars" the way I identify with the lyrics is that I am this huge disruption just for having a kid, like I am the car crash.
mary...Totally. I've been in so many situations where all of these people who are not used to kids are there and the kids are in the center of the room and nobody is paying attention to them. Then suddenly Random hits somebody and everyone turns and yells, "Random!" I remember once and just sobbing carrying Random home. They just don't get it that if you ignore kids long enough that's going to happen, and then you yell at them?
molly...And then there's the crap that gets laid on you as the mom, "Why can't you control your kid?" It's double edged though because if someone were to go over and discipline Hugo for me I would feel like they thought I wasn't doing my job, but when nobody does anything I think, "Why can't somebody else do something?"
mary...We are just constantly having to educate people. Otherwise we have to deal with their shit. People here are so productive and doing their own businesses and things and they are so cool in their alternativeness, but they don't know how to exist around kids. I always connect much better with my friends who work with kids.
molly...Yeah, if people can deal with kids that probably means they've dealt on some level with their childhood and they are functioning better as adults.
mary...That is what is so great about kids. They force you to do that. It's not easy, but it's great.
To order the cd, send $12.00 (U.S) to Order Dept., Yoyo Recordings, PO Box 2462 Olympia WA 98507 or click here.
Copyright y1999 Molly Gove, all rights reserved.