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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

Girlmom.com is a community by and for teen and young mothers. We welcome childless women and mothers who were older when they gave birth to their first child to participate as allies. We appreciate knowing that not everyone believes the stereotypes about us and we like having people to support, advocate for and defend us, but there are a few guidelines for ally posting.

-Please respect that this is our space. Girlmom often serves as a refuge from the negativity we recieve in real life Please make sure you don't bring any of that here. If you don't agree with someone's choices, you need to keep perspective and consider how you'd react in their situation before you say something judgmental.

-You are welcome to post about your own concerns, but please be mindful of where and how you are posting. Your primary function as an ally should be to support young/teen mothers and to educate yourself on issues we face. Make sure that instead of using girlmom as a website that serves YOUR needs, you recognize that it is here to serve the needs of a different population. Make sure you aren't speaking so much or so loudly that the voices of women who need this space are drowned out.

-Please don't tell us how to run our site, particularly if that involves catering it to your needs. A valid concern can be taken up with a moderator.

-Recognize that if you aren't a mom, you don't know what it's like to be a mom. It doesn't matter how many times you've babysat, how often you take care of your niece/nephew/brother/cousin, you don't know until you are there. If you have not been a pregnant teen, a teen/young mom, a single mom, a working mom, etc, you don't know what these experiencecs are like, so please don't attempt to downplay the hardships involved. If we tell you this, don't react defensively. Instead, let it be a reminder for you to see if you are trying to speak with authority about something you haven't experienced.

-Be aware of your privileges. Realize that we face additional struggles based on our age, and you don't know or understand the teen mom experience just because you "look young." Recognize that certain parenting practices may not be open to us, or we may not have enough confidence yet for certain aspects of pregnancy or birth. People come to different places and stages of life at different ages.

-We are not on display here, and we do not exist to make you feel better about your life. We don't need to feel extra pressure to prove ourselves to older moms or people without kids in our own safe space. At some point we may decide we'd like a private forum for teen/young moms only, and this isn't meant to exclude you, but to make sure girlmom fulfills the purpose for which it is intended.

If there is anything you feel should be added to these guidelines, feel free to post it here.

Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

Just wanted to let y'all know I'm a kidless ally. I was notyetamamma on the other boards, but hadn't joined the new ones. I may not be a kidless ally for long though --- waiting to see if I get my period next week. Shock
  • By Wonderwall at 06/02/2004 - 12:18pm
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

thanks Smile I'll change yer title.
  • By rosie at 06/02/2004 - 12:47pm
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

I totally agree with these guidelines, and was wondering if the mods could create a "Mama ally" or similar title for those of us who had our kiddos later? I feel uncomfortable being identified as a "Girlmom" when I have never had to face the judgments and anti-young mum bias that is so prevalent in society. I definitely feel that my role here is to provide what support can, and to sit on my hands and listen, alot. I also try to take what I learn here and chip away at prejudice.
  • By atreyu at 06/02/2004 - 1:35pm
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

Atreyu wrote:I totally agree with these guidelines, and was wondering if the mods could create a "Mama ally" or similar title for those of us who had our kiddos later? I feel uncomfortable being identified as a "Girlmom" when I have never had to face the judgments and anti-young mum bias that is so prevalent in society. I definitely feel that my role here is to provide what support can, and to sit on my hands and listen, alot. I also try to take what I learn here and chip away at prejudice. ditto.
  • By vegenglit at 06/03/2004 - 12:07pm
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

vegenglit wrote:Atreyu wrote:I totally agree with these guidelines, and was wondering if the mods could create a "Mama ally" or similar title for those of us who had our kiddos later? I feel uncomfortable being identified as a "Girlmom" when I have never had to face the judgments and anti-young mum bias that is so prevalent in society. I definitely feel that my role here is to provide what support can, and to sit on my hands and listen, alot. I also try to take what I learn here and chip away at prejudice. ditto. we're currently discussing this in mod squad.
  • By rosie at 06/03/2004 - 12:46pm
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

Quote:I totally agree with these guidelines, and was wondering if the mods could create a "Mama ally" or similar title for those of us who had our kiddos later? I feel uncomfortable being identified as a "Girlmom" when I have never had to face the judgments and anti-young mum bias that is so prevalent in society. I definitely feel that my role here is to provide what support can, and to sit on my hands and listen, alot. I also try to take what I learn here and chip away at prejudice. What about a title for those of us who were girlmoms, but are now no longer girls but older women? "Former GirlMom", or something like that...? I also feel, as the other poster said, that my role here is to offer support and affirmation to teenage mothers. Although I was once a teen mother and experienced all the prejudice, discrimination, and marginalization that goes along with that, I haven't been a teenager in quite some time and so am no longer discriminated against for being one. I wouldn't want my forum title to give new members the wrong impression. ~ fairy
  • By fairytale at 06/06/2004 - 4:42pm
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

Fairy~ The consensus we seemed to have reached in mods is once a girlmom, ALWAYS a girlmom. I think it could get far too complicated if we adjusted names based on the current age vs. the age when you had your kid. I'm almost 20, yet I got pregnant at 15, so I'm not a teen anymore really, but I still consider myself and my experiences to be that of a teenage mom. Where would we draw the line? It just seems not as important, and like it would be wayy too much work, cause we have to go through and change titles one by one, which takes for-eva. As far as older mother titles, we havent finished talking about this or deciding what to do. If you have suggestions you can PM mod_squad or even here maybe, as to what the name shoud be and all.
  • By rosie at 06/06/2004 - 4:47pm
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

Quote:Fairy~ The consensus we seemed to have reached in mods is once a girlmom, ALWAYS a girlmom. Yeah, I see your point, lol. Okay, then.
  • By fairytale at 06/06/2004 - 4:49pm
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Hey thanks for posting this again

Thanks for posting these. As always, you do a fabulous job 'round here. I third the suggestion of a different identifier for those of us who had our kids when we were older.
  • By boomboom at 06/08/2004 - 7:22am
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

How 'bout, "hot old lady?" Ok, just kidding. I think Mama Ally would be a fine moniker.
  • By boomboom at 06/08/2004 - 7:25am
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

When would the cut-off be between girlmom and not girl mom. To be fair, someone who gets pregnant at 15 and someone who gets pregnant at 20 face different challenges, but if the 20 year old looks 15, she's going to be facing the same sort of discrimination that the 15 year old does. I'm not complaining - just wondering how you would delineate it.
  • By lissy at 06/09/2004 - 1:19pm
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

Quote:To be fair, someone who gets pregnant at 15 and someone who gets pregnant at 20 face different challenges, but if the 20 year old looks 15, she's going to be facing the same sort of discrimination that the 15 year old does. Eh, sorta but not really. 20 has civil rights. 15 does not. 15 can be placed in a foster home or juvenile detention facility. 20 cannot be incarcerated unless she breaks a law. It's illegal for 15 to do anything without the consent of her parent or "legal guardian". If she has neither, she is in violation of the law simply for existing and faces the danger of being taken into protective custody and separated from her child. 15 can neither work nor drive legally. 20 can do both. A 15-year-old cannot legally drop out of school (you have to be 16 in my state). 15 cannot legally obtain housing for herself and her child; she is not old enough to sign a lease. 20 can. You see where I'm going with this. I look young now. I'm 30, and I still get mistaken for a teen all the time. And it sucks, and it's annoying, and I do consider it a subtle form of discrimination... but it's nothing like what I faced when I actually was a teen, both a mother and a minor, and did not have the civil rights that adults in our society have. Since it is against the law for 15-year-olds to live independently and without adult guardianship, the only way that a 15-year-old mother can accomplish this is by living beneath the law and hoping she doesn't get caught and locked away somewhere. Not to imply that all young/ young-looking parents aren't discriminated against, because I know they are. But if it were up to me (don't worry, it's not), I'd say a "girlmom" is a mom who is still legally a minor at the time she gives birth; ie. under 18 years old, and thus not eligible for adult civil right protection. IMO, it really is a whole different can of worms. So, while a "20-year-old who looks 15" might "face the same sort of discrimination" as an actual 15-year-old, the fact is that if a cop stops her on the street and asks why she's not at school, she can always just pull out her identification and prove that she's a legal adult with every right to be walking on a public street. Same with prospective employers, same with driving a car, same with leasing an apartment, etc. Nobody is going to be barred from doing any of these necessary things because they "look" young. They are going to be barred from doing them only if they actually are young. And parenting when you aren't old enough to work, drive, or live alone is much harder, truly, than parenting when you are legally old enough to do these things. JMO.
  • By fairytale at 06/09/2004 - 1:56pm
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

word to fairy. being a mom in high school is a whole different ballgame. Once you hit 18, regardless of all other factors, you automatically have more priveledge then a minor mama. My friends who got pregnant at 18 can not understand how hard it was to be pregnant and running out of 10th grade english to puke. So many issues come into play when you are pregnant and a minor.
  • By rosie at 06/09/2004 - 4:19pm
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

So do yall want the age to be under 18? I would probably cry if someone wanted to take my girlmom title from me for being 18 when I gave birth, although I was still in HS when I got pregnant both times and think an 18 year old mom is closer to a 17 year old one than a 22 year old one. But if that's the chosen age, then we can make the titles and I'll step down from moderating here, since I wouldn't think that was right.
  • By julie at 06/09/2004 - 5:37pm
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

As far as I know, I'm the only one who considers under 18 any different from over 18, and I am not in any sort of influential or policy-making position here. It's my opinion, for the reasons stated above, but it doesn't reflect the opinions of anyone else on this forum. I'm not representative of anyone but me. If I thought that my personal opinion on this issue was going to cause you to step down as moderator, I would happily leave the forum myself before I'd allow you to be run off. You are far too valuable to lose, the work you do here is far more important than my continuing presence as a member here. Young women need this forum, and this forum needs you. It would not be the same without you moderating. Perhaps, could we agree to disagree? I am sorry if my opinion made you feel bad. I did not mean to devalue your experience in any way, and was responding to a question more in general terms.
  • By fairytale at 06/09/2004 - 5:54pm
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

"If I thought that my personal opinion on this issue was going to cause you to step down as moderator, I would happily leave the forum myself before I'd allow you to be run off. " Oh no, you holding that opinion wouldn't run me off, I don't scare that easy. Smile I just think if that was made site policy I wouldn't feel comfortable continuing to be a moderator, since I wouldn't want to alienate any new members by being an officially declared non-girlmom in a position of power. Does that make sense?
  • By julie at 06/09/2004 - 6:01pm
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

Maybe we should all just keep the girlmom title? I think being 18 AND in high school is just about the same as being 17 and in high school. While I DO think there are differences with being a minor mom and being legal, I personally would choose to make the age 21 for this forum. But maybe we shouldnt even change it? I thought this initially would be done so that the older mothers who thought of THEMSELVES more as allys could make that clear. THAT is the only reason I think it would be a good idea. Maybe if we DO do this we can make it optional? Whereas if your a kidless ally, you have no say, you simply are, but with this the member has the option of changin there status?
  • By rosie at 06/09/2004 - 6:09pm
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

Well then it won't be site policy. I'm sure most here share your opinion, or have opinions different from either one of ours. Why is such a policy needed anyway? It seems like it would only divide members, categorizing young mothers into girlmom, non-girlmom, deciding on some arbitrary age for the "cut-off" (arbitrary because no matter what age is selected, some will still disagree). Let's just all keep being "girlmoms", for cripesake. If I can be considered a girlmom at my age ( :? ) then who can't be one? Let's just not put any limit on it, and leave it at that. Wink
  • By fairytale at 06/09/2004 - 6:09pm
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

Cross-posted Rosie, sorry.
  • By fairytale at 06/09/2004 - 6:10pm
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

yeah the mods have been pretty torn on this issue since it came up. not like julie vs. so and so, but part of julie vs. another part. Smile perhaps we just add into the guidelines that older mama allies who want to make that clear are invited to put some sort of "older mama ally" something in their signature line. the difference between a mom over 21 and one under 21 is generally not so great as the difference between a person with a kid and one without. this is part of why the KAs were labelled, so that someone posting a parenting/pregnancy question could know if the person responding was pregnant or parenting. the older moms that have come here and have said fucked up shit are the only reason i'd think we should put a new title. but then i think, duh, the fucked up shit they said wouldn't be tolerated even if there was a title.
  • By julie at 06/09/2004 - 6:27pm
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

I think that's a really good idea Julie re the signature thing, and I can see how trying to decide on a cut-off age could be fraught. Althought I did like the suggestion that we be called "Hot Old Ladies" teehee or maybe "Saucy Older Chiccy-Babes" Laughing out loud
  • By atreyu at 06/09/2004 - 7:22pm
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

the signature line is a good idea! but what am i going to put there? "older mama" sounds weird to me... sure i'm older than the girlmoms here, but i still identify as young mama. but maybe i just have to come to terms with actually nearing 30, lol. will go think about new sig now.
  • By Yunape at 06/10/2004 - 5:16am
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

I know I haven't faced near as much as a 15 year old. I was just turned 18 when I got pregnant. I wasn't in school or anything, and I had just gotten 'legal rights' but.. I don't know. I just feel that saying everyone who was over 18 when they were pregnant is now considered an 'older mama ally' and has to follow these rules.. and even though it could have been worse I still feel it downplays everything I went through and everything I had to fight for and against as a young pregnant woman, and continue to fight against as a young mom. I was a teen. I was young, both in age and incredibly young in maturity. I never had any financial or emotional support from my family. I had to work damn hard as a pregnant teen, and I always felt with the things I've experienced.. I kind of earned my girl mom title. I was proud to be a "GirlMom". Urgh. I'm not even talking clearly, I'm just going to hush, I don't mind so much taking away GirlMom and putting Ally.. but still.. it makes me feel kind of like my experiences and my opinions don't matter because there are some people who have had it worse.. I had to fight pretty hard too. May be over dramatic but I'm tired and PMSing and I feel like crying over this.
  • By naivete at 06/10/2004 - 7:01am
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

I want to post an apology for my original post. My choice of wording was quite poor, and upon rereading it, I could see that I implied things I did not mean to imply. I was not in any way saying that 18+ moms faced exactly the same kinds of problems that younger moms do. Thank you Fairy for eloquently putting me to shame about that. What I was ineptly trying to express was the general disaproval and illegal discrimination we slightly older mommas face. We have the ability to get a drivers license, or can legally rent an apartment. We are our own legal guardians, and yes, when the cops harass us we can pull out our ID's and say, yes I am an adult. In no way was I trying to belittle the struggles that younger moms have with issues such as these. But some of the issues we share are just as big - even if they aren't legally entrenched. Just because you can legally rent an apartment doesn't mean a landlord will rent one to you. You can be denied for being a "credit risk," ie. they figure since your young and pregnant/with small child/ren, you don't have any money. It may be illegal, but it's hard to prove. Same with getting a car - a driver's license is handy only if you actually can get a car to drive. And just because I have an ID that says I'm 23, doesn't mean that cops believe it's real, or that I don't get harrassed by them. I'm not trying to be a whiny "poor, poor little me." But to divide up GM into "real" girl moms and "too old to be real" girl moms would seem to me to trivialize the challenges of those who maybe weren't in high school but still were definitly not grown-ups when they had their kids, and destroy the warm, fuzzy, we are all in this together feel that makes GM such a great place. JMO.
  • By lissy at 06/10/2004 - 7:29am
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

I agree that it should be optional. If older mothers want to self identify and have that in their tag like the Kidless Ally's, then that's great, but I think actually separating groups will just cause alienation and hurt feelings. I can definitely see a difference with legal things comparing 15 to 18, and school and such. But that doesn't mean all 15 year olds have it that hard and all 18 year olds have it that easy. There are some 15 year olds with babies though whose parents fully support them, who's children are looked after for free while they finish school, who have incredible financial and emotional support, just like there are some 18 year olds who have to be self supporting, who have to fight to finish schooling and who don't have any financial or emotional support from family or friends. Like. My sister, by the time she was my age she had two children, she had her first kid when she was 16. But she was free to do whatever she wanted, I practically raised those kids when I wasn't in school even though I was younger then her, because babysitting was a free family thing to do, and she took advantage of that and I always had her kids. My father bought their food, diapers, formula, toys, and I washed their dishes, I changed their diapers, I fed them, I read to them, every single day until she got pregnant with her third and then something clicked in her and she took over again. She had it pretty easy. When I got pregnant, no one bought anything for me, my father didn't even get a baby gift for us. I didn't get a baby shower. I got nothing and I still get nothing. No one looked after Trey, no one helped me with money, my family just stepped out and decided I was old enough to do it without any help AT ALL and the pregnancy as well as the birth, was incredibly hard for me to pull off. I had to fight discrimination, I had to pay my way for everything, and it was fucking hard. I consider myself more of a girlmom then my sister was, even though she was under 18 when she had hers. I just.. don't see it as black and white, you're this or you're this, I don't see an absolute fine line and I don't think it's fair for others to impose a fine line on everyone. I would love for it to be optional.
  • By naivete at 06/10/2004 - 7:45am
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

You all raise very good points. As I didn't become a mother until I was 28, and fully understand that this forum isn't for me per se, I will call myself or not call myself whatever folks are comfortable with. Peace.
  • By boomboom at 06/10/2004 - 9:40am
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

Hey, I'm really sorry that this discussion has been causing heartbreak for some of the mama's and stress for the mods. Sad I only brought up the issue of the "Mama-ally" identifier because I know that my experience of becoming a mother at almost 25 meant that I did not face the same societal and legal discriminations that a younger mama would have faced. I participate in this site because I support its kaupapa (mission, goal) and I value the learning/unlearning opportunities that are provided here. I don't really know what else to say. Kia kaha wahine toa (Stay strong brave women)
  • By atreyu at 06/10/2004 - 3:12pm
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

im a kidless- ally as well Smile i was a kidless ally on the old board and can i please be one here Smile thanks ps... the new site is SO COOL
  • By DelinquentGurl at 06/14/2004 - 6:48pm
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

kia ora Atreyu i agree
  • By DelinquentGurl at 06/14/2004 - 6:49pm
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Guidelines For Allies and Older Mother Posters

Bumping and stickying Smile
  • By jen at 12/14/2004 - 5:55am
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